Why 3ds Max 2015 is still not HiDPI compatible?

knmdk · ‎04-01-2014

Hello developers of 3ds Max 2015,

I'm happy to announce your $3675 software is nearly unusable on a modern $4000 computer with the latest Windows 8.1 on board. Please refer to images below for details. Notice how tiny most of the text labels are compared to Edit menubar items.

Also your new highly announced welcome screen font work is horrible as well.

The great Slate Material Editor is terrible as well: in case you'll be able to read text it's going to be a matter of luck to hit the right icon of toolbar. I could tell they're tiniest icons I've seen in my entire life.

But you've provided a bunch of smaller icons in the bottom right corner of the program. I guess we should contact Guinness World Records to write this down.

I believe it's a major flow to launch a new release with so little new features and without any fixes to GUI. Please update menus and Command Panel to become DPI-scalable in SP1/SP2 for 3ds Max 2015 (and 3ds Max Design 2015 as well). Please refer to Blender UI scaling and Maxon Cinema 4D UI scaling as an example of how things should work in a modern world.

P.S. Probably I'm missing something but I couldn't find where I can control Modifiers stack (drag/drop modifiers order, et cetera) in Enhanced Menus Workspace. All a get is the button to toggle Command Panel. This would help a little since Enhanced menus are scaling somehow.

PROH · ‎04-01-2014

I believe it's a bit premature to point out bugs in a version that's not yet released. Might even not be the final release version you've got.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________
3dsMax 4.2 to 2018
AutoCAD 2000 to 2018
Infrastructure Design Suite Premium 2012 to 2018

knmdk · ‎04-02-2014

Dear PROH, I so wish you were right. Unfortunately chances are low since AutoCAD 2015 has similar issues (if not worse).

PROH · ‎04-02-2014

Hope you're wrong... but then again. 2015 is an uneven number, and for the past many years versions with uneven numbers have been the versions NOT to install 😞

Not a tradition to be proud of.

Still hoping the best.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________
3dsMax 4.2 to 2018
AutoCAD 2000 to 2018
Infrastructure Design Suite Premium 2012 to 2018

Anonymous · ‎04-03-2014

HiDPI has only been "properly" implemented on Windows 8.1, so before that the operating system wasn't even optimized.

Max 2015's roadmap was set up quite a while back, so there probably wasn't much consideration for it since vanilla Windows 8 didn't even have proper support for it on the OS level.

Even on the Retina Mac side there are currently still problems in many applications after almost 2 years, so bashing Autodesk for it seems a bit much.

Was I dissapointed when 3ds Max proved to have problems with DPI scaling on my new laptop? A little. (One can always hope)

Was I surprised? Not really, considering the information I looked up on it.

Even within Windows 8.1 on HiDPI settings the windows interface doens't look perfect, so it'll still be some time before it all matures and all third-party applications are providing support. Personally, I just run everything at 1080p and everything works. When the compatibility is sorted out I'll switch to HiDPI.

knmdk · ‎04-03-2014

There's a so little difference in HiDPI support between Windows 7 and 8.1 that it makes no sense. The main point is font size is hard-coded into 3ds Max's "old" GUI. And Autodesk doesn't bother updating this. Believe me it takes very little effort to do it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with HiDPI support algorhythms of Windows. This should've beed done long ago in XP days.

Talking of OS X apps support of HiDPI screens makes no sense. There will always be outdated apps. But it's woth to mention the fact that all main third-party cross-platform design and production tools of OS X (Maxon's, Adoble's, Google's products and even AutoCAD) were updated like a year ago.

As it goes to your last paragraph I'm not talking about how imperfect GUI is today. I mentioned it's really hard to use as is. Lowering resolution and working in blurry GUI was always an option. But are you seriously among those who buy Ferrari and drive it in first gear all time? ~$8000 is a noticeable amont of money to spend and get basically a lemon (in a PC world).

Anonymous · ‎04-03-2014

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to show that Max currently isn't the only app on windows suffering from the same problems.

I understand it's frustrating spending that amount of money and not being able to run Max in HiDPI mode. To be fair though, I'd put in a lot of research before investing so much in a new setup, making sure everything I want to use works with the products I want to buy.

If changing the fonts within Max was really that easy, don't you think the developers would have done so by now?

I don't have a problem with early-adopting new hardware / software, but you need to be prepared for the fact that things just might not work properly yet.

As you stated yourself, on the OS X side things were updated about a year ago, one year after the release of Retina screens. HiDPI has only recently started popping up on the Windows side, so again, you'll have to give it time.

And if I bought a Ferrari, I'd drive it like I stole it. 😉

knmdk · ‎04-03-2014

Nor do I! Understand me right sometimes it's just about time to point someone (Autodesk in this case) so your experience was better. Autodesk have bought most of promising software these days. And it's quite a question if that software have started growing or slowering development progress after being purchased. You've got your point on analysing before investing. But since both of us would drive Ferrari like we stole it... I guess Autodesk should keep up!

RGhost77 · ‎05-23-2014

https://3dsmaxfeedback.autodesk.com/forums/76763-small-annoying-things/suggestions/2342461-create-te... please vote!!

Royal Ghost | veda3d.com

Anonymous · ‎03-16-2015

Same problems here. I brought my latest version macbook pro retina last month and found that 3d max has no mac version and still unusable due to the super small fonts even I spend hundred dollars to install windows. Very dissappointed.

That's an insane solution but would it help if I connect my mac to a monitor with a lower resolution??

Anonymous · ‎03-28-2015

I have just joined the ranks of those trying to use an Autodesk product (MotionBuilder 2015) on Windows 8.1 (running under bootcamp on a new 2014 MacBook Pro with a 15" retina display). Surely there is a way to make the menu text usable by now? My searching has failed to discover a fix. Any advice on how to take care of this usability problem would be deeply appreciated.

Anonymous · ‎03-28-2015

So I have taken the low route of adjusting my display settings to 1920x1080 and at least MoBu is now usable. Better that than going back to my old Lattitude E6400! Hopefully Autodesk will complete rewriting their GUI code to work on a HiDPI system like the MacBook Pro soon.

eodeo · ‎03-28-2015

Even if you've got the latest and the best 2499$ version of MacBook Pro, you've only got a GeForce GT 750M GPU. That GPU is going to have serious trouble moving 1080p in 3d let alone anything above it. While I understand you'd want to use all the pixels your new display supports, you should realize that Mac was never designed to work with 3d. It can run it, but that's as far as Apple is willing to take you.

Every other model of MacBook Pro doesn't even have a dedicated GPU, making MacBooks decisively targeted at 2d users.

knmdk · ‎03-29-2015

@Anonymous wrote:
I have just joined the ranks of those trying to use an Autodesk product (MotionBuilder 2015) on Windows 8.1 (running under bootcamp on a new 2014 MacBook Pro with a 15" retina display). Surely there is a way to make the menu text usable by now? My searching has failed to discover a fix. Any advice on how to take care of this usability problem would be deeply appreciated.

Still no updates from Autodesk. It's still not usable at all. Best bet is buying a cheap external display with regular 96 DPI or so ...

@Anonymous wrote:
Even if you've got the latest and the best 2499$ version of MacBook Pro, you've only got a GeForce GT 750M GPU. That GPU is going to have serious trouble moving 1080p in 3d let alone anything above it. While I understand you'd want to use all the pixels your new display supports, you should realize that Mac was never designed to work with 3d. It can run it, but that's as far as Apple is willing to take you.

I disagree. You probably have never ever run 3ds Max with this kind of setup. It's more than enough for most still scenes.

eodeo · ‎03-30-2015

If you need/expect very little out of 3d, I can see how you wouldn't need a decent GPU as even integrated GPUs are very powerful now, compared to those just a couple of years ago. In competing with AMD, Intel made huge leaps in the last 3 years.

4k is becoming increasingly standard and high pixel density isn't as novel as once was. I'm for support of such displays. I wouldn't recommend them for anyone doing serious 3d work or gaming as even high end GPUs simply cannot cope with such large amounts of pixels, but one day they will be able to. So it's better to get the support early for those who do plunge into using them.

I hope win10 brings proper support for such displays.

dgorsman · ‎03-30-2015

I'd recommend a *reasonable* support request (not yelling, threats of leaving if it isn't in the next release, no assumptions that everyone else is in the same boat, etc.). Once its apparent that there are sufficient users out there with such hardware, there will be a valid business case for AutoDesk to push this to a higher priority. If not, then AutoDesk can only fall back on information gathered through other means which could very well show the vast majority of users still on conventional HD monitors.

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If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.

jens.diemer · ‎03-31-2015

I only take a quick look on max 2016... It seems that there is nothing changed related to HiDPI

Jens

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https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_bugs | https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_patches

Anonymous · ‎03-31-2015

Is 2016 available now?

senorpablo · ‎04-01-2015

Max doesn't even support multiple monitors correctly, which have been common for 15 years now. Files which are saved with graph editors or various other windows and dialogs positioned on a second monitor are unaccessable when opened on a workstation with only a single monitor.

In 2015, the select by name dialog/scene explorer or whatever they're calling it now can't even remember where it was positioned last, and instead opens in the far top left corner every time, rather then the center of the screen where you could actually read it.

What a joke.

pastorpastor · ‎04-08-2015

I'm planting a flag on this thread , while I've just posted a message in an other thread (3dsmax 2016 new features ) about UHD 4K (HiDPI) support on the upcoming 3dsmax 2016

I can't believe autodesk did not implement the UHD support yet, please tell me I'm wrong !!??

original post :

what about the 3dsmax 2016 support with high density display (4K UHD 3840x2160 ) ??

They are now maybe 20 UHD monitors available but last news I've heard was that 3dsmax (and all the plugins) was not scaling well at all and it was almost unusable. I think it is really problematic in 2015.

It's a pitty because a such large workspace is an amazing productivity improvement.

Most of the monitors companies persist to release only UHD monitors with ridiculous sizes, mostly 27' -> 31.5' so the DPI is too strong and because windows scaling still sucks ( https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-4k-uhd-3840-x-2160-experience/ ), it's still unusable with a lot of softwares .

There is only one UHD monitor 40' that is almost perfect size because the ppi=110 ( https://pcmonitors.info/philips/philips-bdm4065uc-40-inch-uhd-4k-monitor/ ) so it's still usable without windows scaling but unfortunatly this monitor has many drawbacks for graphic designer due to the VA technology ( dark gradations clogged , luminosity regulation made with PWM system, etc ..)

I'm event not talking about the UHD laptop, witch I guess you'll need a magnifying glass to read something