BUG in 3ds Max 2017 CAT Animation

[cgdevnet]

A huge bug make 3ds Max 2017 useless: 

When skinning with CAT bones, export it to FBX, and reimport to 3ds Max, you will find the animation is NOT correct! many Unreal Engine4 users and Unity users have found this bug, so please fix it in update 3, otherwise artists have no choice but use the previous version such as 3ds Max 2016.

the test file is here:

http://www.cgdev.net/test/Emma_max2011.zip

another bug is after you export it to FBX, when you replay the animation it will crash 3ds Max.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @cgdevnet,

Thank you for your post, I appreciate the information you provided here.  Can you please let me know which animation is incorrect when you re-import it?  (Should it be super obvious?)  I am not seeing many differences in animation, though I do see a finger or two that is slightly different when I reload.  (Due to subframes maybe.)  Can you please detail the other things that are different in case I missed them?  I am getting reimported animation that matches almost exactly except for those fingers.    (I point cached the rigged character and compared the reimport to the point cache, very similar.)

Is there a step I am maybe doing incorrectly here compared to your exporting?  I am using the default settings, bake animation on, and export format I just want to re-create the problem so I can log it if it is a bug.  So far I cannot seem to do it but that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem, just that I haven't recreated it yet.   Could you please attach the exported FBX that you are having issues with so I can test that file directly?  Thank you for doing so.

I was able to reproduce the crash after exporting.  I will put that into our tracking system.  

Best Regards,

[spacefrog_]

I can confirm that with the posted scene, 3ds Max 2017 locks up after the export and dragging the timeline, so there is at least one serious bug here ( maybe scene related )

For the animation, it's hard to say what does'nt work for you without further details:

The animation works for me in FBX review - i get some animation jittering but that disappears after i check the animation baking in the export dialog

The 3ds Max lockup after export is serious, but it might be related to that specific character or animation setup

I tested the FBX anim export using some character of mine that uses biped and another one that uses CAT and both did'nt lock up 3ds Max after export

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @spacefrog_,

Thank you for doing that.  I have tested a few characters on my end as well with no problems, but I still logged the bug with the file so that the devs can look at it and diagnose where the issue comes from.  I really appreciate your dedication.  

@cgdevnet, so far the timeline playback after export is indeed a bug.  I am attempting to reskin this model using a more modern CAT rig and seeing if that makes a difference.  I will post and update when I have one, and in the meantime if you could post the FBX that would be sublime.  Thank you for your time.  

Best Regards,

[cgdevnet]

The fbx file is exported from 3ds Max 2017 with update 2 on windows 10
Binary FBX has more issues on foot animation so I choose the FBX 2016/2017 ASCII format.
http://www.cgdev.net/test/emma_fbx_2017.zip

Error Frame     Desc
89 ~ 91           from left viewport: the left leg animation is not smooth
104                 foot rotation is not correct
123 ~ 125       body and soulder animation flicker, not smooth
133 ~ 135       body, soulder and head animation flicker, not smooth
138 ~ 140       soulder animation flicker, not smooth
143 ~ 145       from left viewport: the body and shouder animation is not smooth
221 ~ 247       whole left hand rotation are not correct! especially at frame 240 the hand pose screenshot:
http://www.cgdev.net/test/emma_frame_240.png
http://www.cgdev.net/test/emma_frame_104.png

[spacefrog_]

Indeed ( only tested the hand pose at frame 240 ), Max 2017 exports that differently than Max 2016 does. With Max ´2016 FBX export the handpose is correct, with Max 2017 it's flipped . It does'nt matter which FBX version i chose or if i bake the animation , still the export contains the flipped hand pose .

Would be interesting to know whether the bug comes from the updated FBX SDK Max 2017 uses or something has changed on the Max side ....

[cgdevnet]

@Anonymous:

Actually the bug was found when I doing some test with my x exporter which isn't based on FBX SDK, to confirm the bug does't come from exporter but the 3ds Max animation system I switch to the FBX format, it turns out both file format have the same problem.

[spacefrog_ · Accepted solution]

Okay - seems i found the reason for both issues: the flipping hand exports and the LOCKUP after the FBX export

With Max 2017, a new transform cache ( TMCache )was introduced to speed up animation playback.This feature previously caused problems with the HID IK solver. The bug was initially analyzed and pinned down to the TMCache by myself, hence i thought i check again for this problem.

That bug was fixed in SP1 ( as far i remember ), but seems that was not the only bug the transform cache causes.

With the previous bug fix, a new maxscript command was introduced to disable the TMCache

So if you turn the transform cache off, both problems with this character export dissappear for me ( flipped hand and lockup after export )

Could both of you try the following before export and check if this fixes the problems ?

preferences.enableTMCache=false

For the time being this provides a workaround, but certainly it has to be reported one million times to give it priority.

If both of you can confirm that this fixes it, I will do so too to give it some awareness

@cgdevnet: i guess it is okay if i include your scene with the bug report ?

[cgdevnet]

@Anonymous:
Sure, you can use them at will, and many thanks for your workaround!  all problem solved by change the EnableTMCache value to 0 in this file:
C:\Users\***\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\2017 - 64bit\ENU\en-US\defaults\MAX\CurrentDefaults.ini

BTW:  Is there a corresponding option in UI?

[spacefrog_]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

BTW:  Is there a corresponding option in UI?

---

nope - except the workaround you used and the preferences.enableTMCache=false maxscript command, (which doesn't  persist after a 3ds Max restart), there's no other way nor a UI for this

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @spacefrog_ and @cgdevnet

Thank you very much for the detailed write up and cordial communications, this is really great.  I have included this text as well as the link to this thread in the tracking system.  This thread is a testament to the sheer dedication and cooperation typical of the 3ds Max community, and I am lucky to have users such as you both.

Maybe a startup script could handle the preferences.enableTMCache=false command.  I have some meetings this morning but I will test this out today.  Thank you both again for keeping this thread helpful, informative, and upbeat. 

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @cgdevnet and @spacefrog_,

If you put this script in "C:\Users\(Your User Name)\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\2017 - 64bit\ENU\scripts\startup"  you won't have to enter this command every session.  I've tested it and it works well, and thank you to Spacefrog for the amazing tip.

Best Regards,