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arlas116
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎08-09-2013

Window and Door problems?

668 Views, 7 Replies
08-09-2013 09:26 AM

Is anybody else having problems with window and door tools? I have to make them a huge size so the geometry isn't ontop of it's self but then they don't fit in the walls right. normally I would just make everything bigger but i need everything to be to scale. Thanks for any help you can offer.

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Moderator
Steve_Curley
Posts: 18,572
Registered: ‎08-07-2007

Re: Window and Door problems?

08-09-2013 10:47 AM in reply to: arlas116
Post a scene (zipped) which shows the problem. No issues creating doors and windows in walls here.

Max 4.2 through 2015 (SP1), Composite 2014.
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 335.23).

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Distinguished Mentor
samab
Posts: 6,640
Registered: ‎11-08-2006

Re: Window and Door problems?

08-09-2013 10:54 AM in reply to: arlas116

THey can be a bit of a pain, because the default values of all the many parameters are a bit big for the scale I (and probably yourself) normally use.

You can start with a big window, then go through all the parameters reducing them to something sensible, until you can set your size to proper scale without things being inside out.

I don't know if there is a way to alter the defaults. I don't use them often enough to have looked into it seriously.

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Mentor
Doughboy12
Posts: 2,234
Registered: ‎04-08-2011

Re: Window and Door problems?

08-12-2013 01:39 PM in reply to: arlas116

I get the same results with fence and rails.

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Product Support
BenBisares
Posts: 145
Registered: ‎08-29-2011

Re: Window and Door problems?

08-13-2013 10:14 PM in reply to: arlas116

I would have to see your scene to be sure but most likely because your scene isn't made to scale. The AEC primitives (Doors, Windows, Stairs, etc..) assume real world values. So if your scene is set to something like generic units or your scene isn't to scale (ie. building a door 5 cm high) you'll get strange results. The reason is that building realistic scenes from a lighting standpoint requires that the physicality of the scene to be accurate (Scale, materials, Photometric lights). So for example putting a 100w light bulb in the middle of a room the size of a shoebox will give you drastically different results than a room the size of an arena.

 

As far as I know there isn't a way to get AEC objects to default to other scales. I could be wrong though since I've never tried to change default sizes before because of what I mentioned above.

 

Maybe someone else knows of a way?



Ben Bisares
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Distinguished Mentor
samab
Posts: 6,640
Registered: ‎11-08-2006

Re: Window and Door problems?

08-14-2013 02:38 AM in reply to: BenBisares

It's not an issue with not working to scale, it is about which scale or rather which units you work with.

The AEC object defaults are set up for Inches, if you use any units other than inches, in correct scale, the AEC dimensions are out of scale with the scene and must be manually adjusted.

I mostsly work in cm, which makes window frames and such-like a little thin, but not out of the way.

On a very large scene, like a whole college campus for example, I may opt for a larger unit like Meters. In that case if I draw a door or window (to correct scale) the frames are very thick, the same goes for feet.

AEC just assumes that everyone uses inches all of the time.

It would be far better if they took into account which units you are working with.

 

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Valued Mentor
PROH
Posts: 438
Registered: ‎07-15-2010

Re: Window and Door problems?

08-14-2013 10:20 AM in reply to: BenBisares
samap is absolutely right. The AEC default values is made in inches, and if your system units is set to anything else, the AEC objects is out of scale. The name of unit is changed but the values are not recalculated, they simply stays the same. I work a lot with city models with both units (display and system) set to meter, and when I creates a AEC foliage tree it's 360 meters high! If I want to know the default value, I have to recalculate myself: 360 x 0,0254m = 9,144m. A bit more appropriate size.

This goes for all AEC objects, and when it comes to windows and doors, it means they very often won't make holes in the AEC wall, because the are inside out. First when they are adjusted to a proper size they make holes as intended.
It would be nice if the were recalculated correct, and if one could make a user default. So far I haven't found a way to make a new default, but I have found kind of a workaround that can make life easier if you're using AEC object often:

1) Make a scene with all AEC Object readjusted with proper default values on a separate layer. (This could also be part of the maxstart file)
2) When you need to use AEC objects, merge them into your scene (by scene or by object)
3) Once in your scene, select the readjusted AEC object before creating a new. By selecting it, max alters the default "create" values for this specific AEC object.

It's not a revolution, but it can be a timesaver working with AEC objects. Note that a your need to make and select a "default object" for every single type of doors, windows, railings, stairs, foliage etc., and that you can have several "default models" of each.

AEC objects could be a great tool, if just AutoDesk paid a bit more attention to it.
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Product Support
BenBisares
Posts: 145
Registered: ‎08-29-2011

Re: Window and Door problems?

08-15-2013 12:52 AM in reply to: arlas116

@ and @PROH

 

You guys are absolutiely correct. I always work with Imperial units when doing any archtecture work despite me being Canadian and using the metric system the rest of the time. Never noticed that the default sizes were not auto-adjusting when using the metric system. Dropped the ball on this one, sorry guys.

 

In any case I agree it should default to set standards based on the system unit.

 

I can log a wishlist for this one. If anyone would like to add their two-cents just reply in this thread and I'll add it to my write up.



Ben Bisares
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